Tried and Tired

Rhamah

Rhamah

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Hey guys, 1986 zl600 owner here...

I've been trying for months to get this thing running right but can't quite get it together. It's a little difficult to have a project when you can only get at it one or two weekends a month. Basically it goes like this:

- Turned it to PRI to get some gas in the bowls, and started 'er up, and flipped it over to ON.
- It runs at idle fine, maybe a little on the lean side (I had just re-installed the carbs so I hadn't set the idle screw in the optimal place)
- So I look down and I see gas coming out of the seals in the carbs, (I cleaned out A LOT of grey gunk which was possibly keeping the carb sealed :dontknow:)
- Ran it for a minute, until I see gas flowing out of the 'pods and then I cut everything off.
- Gas kept flowing out so I opened up the drain screw on the #1 carb until whatever I had put in the tank drained out (bike off, petcock "ON")

I figure I have a problem with the petcock, and since I had just got it back from Markus I need to make sure of that. Then I assume I have a problem either with my float levels, the needles, or the floats themselves. To be honest, I was a little confused when I was putting the carbs back on. Specifically about the second hose I have coming from my gas tank. But I don't have the california model, I double checked. The only thing I could figure out is a small ****ty picture I saw that looked like it went to the original airbox which isn't on there anymore (if I'm wrong, please tell me).

Anyway, I think I'm going to test the petcock to see if it's a problem, maybe reset the floats, and if that doesn't work then I'm going to try and find a mechanic. Suggestions? Tips? Mechanic references?
 
i dont remember what the issue was, but when i had my zl before, i was heading to work and felt something on my left leg, it was gas coming from carbs. I called the shop and he said wrap a rag on it and haul ass to him. He had it fixed in no time but i was at work so i cant remember what it was. I do know he jetted the carbs before i bought it, i think a needle was jammed or hung up or something causing my issues.
 
Very common for these thing to happen on these bikes. Test the petcock, but from what i hear, markus does good work. The float level needs to be checked and sounds like the float needles need to be replaced. Not sure what you're needing on tank hoses. Left side has fuel and vacuum to operate the petcock. On the right is a vent, two hoses for a California model, that hook to emission components.
 
You may still have a CAL tank on it. If there are 2 vents on the tank they need to be run to hoses and let them vent under the seat or run them down to the front of the swingarm where the other hoses are and let them vent there. #2 carb vacuum line goes to petcock. The rest of them should be capped off unless you want to use the air suction crap still. Then the bowl vents between the #1-2 and #3-4 carbs need to run and vent with the tank vents.

Test the petcock in the on and reserve positions by sucking on the vacuum hose, it will slowly shut off when vacuum is released. If not then there's a problem and it needs to be fixed regardless of what else may be wrong.

The float valve needles may need replaced. Only use OEM needles from www.murphskits.com for the Concours ZG1000 (C-10) he sells a OEM Keihin kit for $70 shipped that includes the float bowl gaskets, float valve needles, airscrew orings, and airscrew washers. Best deal and quality out there for carb kits! Clean the crap out of the carbs after completely disassembling without breaking the rack down. Pull the choke plungers out, and vacuum slides, jets, emulsion tubes and needle jets and floats out before spraying with carb cleaner. Set the floats to 17mm as described in the manual without compressing the spring loaded tip on the float valve needle. this is done by holding the carbs at an angle to keep the weight somewhat off the spring loaded tip.

Starting to sound like a broken record here with carbs and petcock issues. I really need to put a tech doc together for both of these.
 
Markus does good work, but can't control what's in the tank! Did you flush the tank to make sure you don't have something in there? If there was stuff in the carbs, it had to come from somewhere. The petcock has a diaphragm [get your mind out of the gutter, madman!] and it has to open and close with the vacuum on the port. If junk gets in there when it's open, it won't be able to close.

Save yourself a lot of frustration and send the carbs to Rick West, he's rebuilt more of these things than ZLs still on the road. Even if your mechanic has done one or two, I seriously doubt he's set up the way Rick is with the ultrasonic cleaner, the polishing equipment, the spare parts, the paints and the vast knowledge of these carbs. Also, you're going to need another oil change. Will be the cleanest oil pan around!:laughing7:
 
golddrakul said:
Markus does good work, but can't control what's in the tank! Did you flush the tank to make sure you don't have something in there? If there was stuff in the carbs, it had to come from somewhere. The petcock has a diaphragm [get your mind out of the gutter, madman!] and it has to open and close with the vacuum on the port. If junk gets in there when it's open, it won't be able to close.

Save yourself a lot of frustration and send the carbs to Rick West, he's rebuilt more of these things than ZLs still on the road. Even if your mechanic has done one or two, I seriously doubt he's set up the way Rick is with the ultrasonic cleaner, the polishing equipment, the spare parts, the paints and the vast knowledge of these carbs. Also, you're going to need another oil change. Will be the cleanest oil pan around!:laughing7:
Click to expand...

No, but it dried for a few weeks and some of that grey gunk I was talking about came out in a playing card sized slab after a nice shake session. How much does Rick charge? (ballpark it for me please)

zlMark said:
Starting to sound like a broken record here with carbs and petcock issues. I really need to put a tech doc together for both of these.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. And thanks for the tips I didn't think about it having a Cal tank on it.

It being the off season now I hate to say it, but it probably won't be getting much love from me. I'd ideally like to do a lot of (necessary) things and have it running better than I got it by next season, but that requires capital and time I don't have (thanks, college). So I'll probably end up trying to keep it running by patching it up as best I can. Thanks for your help guys.
 
zlMark said:
You may still have a CAL tank on it. If there are 2 vents on the tank they need to be run to hoses and let them vent under the seat or run them down to the front of the swingarm where the other hoses are and let them vent there. #2 carb vacuum line goes to petcock. The rest of them should be capped off unless you want to use the air suction crap still. Then the bowl vents between the #1-2 and #3-4 carbs need to run and vent with the tank vents.
Click to expand...

Sounds like what has been done. There are 2 hoses hanging from the tank and one is attached the the carb via the "T" plastic piece, and the other just... hangs there. I went out of my mind for 30min trying to find a plug I missed to attach that other hose to. Should I clamp it or something? Just let it hang like it's doing? Does it matter which one is attached and which isn't?

And yes, the petcock is currently attached via carb 2 and the others capped off.
 
Since it is a 49 state bike with a cal tank on it then you won't have anything to hook it to. Just run the hoses back under the seat and let them vent there or down in front of swingarm.

You did not cap off the bowl vents did you?
 
Rhamah said:
Sounds like what has been done. There are 2 hoses hanging from the tank and one is attached the the carb via the "T" plastic piece, and the other just... hangs there. I went out of my mind for 30min trying to find a plug I missed to attach that other hose to. Should I clamp it or something? Just let it hang like it's doing? Does it matter which one is attached and which isn't?

And yes, the petcock is currently attached via carb 2 and the others capped off.
Click to expand...
I don't have experience with a California tank, but I don't think you want to put vacuum on either of the 2 vent tubes.
 
Rhamah said:
There are 2 hoses hanging from the tank and one is attached the the carb via the "T" plastic piece, and the other just... hangs there
.
Click to expand...

If that "T" is the black plastic piece between the carbs, don't think it should go there. The "T"s are air vents to the carbs so the fuel going out of the bowl doesn't create a vacuum condition within it. Don't believe it will actually recycle vapor like some of the car systems...

Also, letting the tank dry and shaking out pieces just means you have dried pieces of junk in there, ready to float around again as soon as they get wet. Really need to flush the tank, maybe even soak it with a rust remover such as Evapo-rust. Many methods to clean inside of tank, including several professional options. Search the site for past discussions on this, there have been many.
 
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You need to get the tank (with petcock installed) over here to me to check it out for you if you don't have any luck testing it as ZLMark has outlined to you. As always, that petcock was tested before it left here so I KNOW it was working correctly then. We both know your filter is suspect and was badly melted at some point so lets look at that sort of thing first. I don't mind opening up the petcock again to have a close look at it......just bring it by and I'll check it out. If you have stuff coming loose inside that tank, you need to address that immediately! You also need to keep your eyes peeled for another ZL600 petcock so you can have a good filter although yours was sealed when it left here. You have my number so call me and we'll get it sorted out.
 
golddrakul said:
If that "T" is the black plastic piece between the carbs, don't think it should go there. The "T"s are air vents to the carbs so the fuel going out of the bowl doesn't create a vacuum condition within it. Don't believe it will actually recycle vapor like some of the car systems...

Also, letting the tank dry and shaking out pieces just means you have dried pieces of junk in there, ready to float around again as soon as they get wet. Really need to flush the tank, maybe even soak it with a rust remover such as Evapo-rust. Many methods to clean inside of tank, including several professional options. Search the site for past discussions on this, there have been many.
Click to expand...


No, if I recall (don't have it in front of me) that is going to the petcock.

The black "T" piece I'm referring to is actually connected to the carb via 2 hoses part# 92005-1135 on here http://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/k...1986)/CARBURETOR_ASSY/ZL600-A1-1986/090209C-9 if I'm still not being clear enough. So I shouldn't have the tank hooked to the carburetor at all? (except for through the petcock of course) Just let both of those hoses hang? If that's the case, do I need that "T" piece and the other two hoses clamped off or just unhooked? Do you think that could have been part of the reason I have gas flowing when it shouldn't?
 
zlMark said:
Since it is a 49 state bike with a cal tank on it then you won't have anything to hook it to. Just run the hoses back under the seat and let them vent there or down in front of swingarm.

You did not cap off the bowl vents did you?
Click to expand...

Ok, and no I didn't.
 
markus56 said:
You need to get the tank (with petcock installed) over here to me to check it out for you if you don't have any luck testing it as ZLMark has outlined to you. As always, that petcock was tested before it left here so I KNOW it was working correctly then. We both know your filter is suspect and was badly melted at some point so lets look at that sort of thing first. I don't mind opening up the petcock again to have a close look at it......just bring it by and I'll check it out. If you have stuff coming loose inside that tank, you need to address that immediately! You also need to keep your eyes peeled for another ZL600 petcock so you can have a good filter although yours was sealed when it left here. You have my number so call me and we'll get it sorted out.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'll have to do that next time I'm down there and can pick it up. I've been on the lookout for both another petcock and a new/used speedo "CASE-ASSY-METER GEAR". Could buy one off kawasakipartswarehouse.com but don't have the $77 to spend right now. Didn't mean to imply that you were doing sub-par work, just that the problem I though I had diagnosed and fixed... wasn't.
 
Rhamah said:
Hey guys, 1986 zl600 owner here...

I've been trying for months to get this thing running right but can't quite get it together. It's a little difficult to have a project when you can only get at it one or two weekends a month. Basically it goes like this:

- Turned it to PRI to get some gas in the bowls, and started 'er up, and flipped it over to ON.
- It runs at idle fine, maybe a little on the lean side (I had just re-installed the carbs so I hadn't set the idle screw in the optimal place)
- So I look down and I see gas coming out of the seals in the carbs, (I cleaned out A LOT of grey gunk which was possibly keeping the carb sealed :dontknow:)
- Ran it for a minute, until I see gas flowing out of the 'pods and then I cut everything off.
- Gas kept flowing out so I opened up the drain screw on the #1 carb until whatever I had put in the tank drained out (bike off, petcock "ON")

I figure I have a problem with the petcock, and since I had just got it back from Markus I need to make sure of that. Then I assume I have a problem either with my float levels, the needles, or the floats themselves. To be honest, I was a little confused when I was putting the carbs back on. Specifically about the second hose I have coming from my gas tank. But I don't have the california model, I double checked. The only thing I could figure out is a small ****ty picture I saw that looked like it went to the original airbox which isn't on there anymore (if I'm wrong, please tell me).

Anyway, I think I'm going to test the petcock to see if it's a problem, maybe reset the floats, and if that doesn't work then I'm going to try and find a mechanic. Suggestions? Tips? Mechanic references?
Click to expand...

I had the carbs off so far at least 8 times on the zl600. I had gas flooding the airbox as well and it is contributed to the float needles height either set incorrectly or worn.

Ended up getting 4 new ones for $30 and did the job. I know you have cleaned the carbs, but make sure you clean the the needle seat throughly with some metal polisher and q-tips. You'd be amazed how much extra crap iz in there. Also, the float level should be set at 17 mm (or roughly 6/8 of an inch). Check the floats as well, if any of them are warped, you better get new ones.

Just my two cents..passing on what I've learned from members here. Might want to look at those tiny annoying thingies!
 
Roughly 6/8 of an inch? 6/8 is the same as 3/4 which is .750". How about .669" inches! .020" in either direction can make it rich or lean. I have an air fuel meter permanently installed and I have played with float settings to no end. Setting the floats correctly is critical.
 
zlMark said:
Roughly 6/8 of an inch? 6/8 is the same as 3/4 which is .750". How about .669" inches! .020" in either direction can make it rich or lean. I have an air fuel meter permanently installed and I have played with float settings to no end. Setting the floats correctly is critical.
Click to expand...

my bad the 6/8 is typo

Well, looking at the ruler here, looks like 5/8 (not 6/8 I wrote earlier) or better 11/16 (which is almost perfect but at least within the +-0.5 mm on top of 17 setting)
 
Good idea on making one yourself. Take a chunk out of the wifes plastic cutting board and and notch it out to .669"
 
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