Clutch Disengage Problems

entoria

entoria

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Hi all.

My Zl900 has developed a weird thing with the clutch. When I have been riding it awhile and the engine is nice and hot, the bike wants to creep forward even when the clutch lever is fully pulled in. It is as if the push rod is still slight engaged. This does not happen when cool. I thought my clutch fluid was low but that wasn't the case but I went ahead anway and fully bled the line and put new fluid in it. Still no difference. I also went ahead and did a complete oil change as well as filter. When I drained my oil I realised that crickey... I was running this bike with hardly any oil in her - eeeek.

So what could be causing the bike to creep slowly forward when the clutch lever is fully pulled but only happens when the engine has warmed up?

Aprecciate you feedback.

Regards

John
 
entoria said:
Hi all.

My Zl900 has developed a weird thing with the clutch. When I have been riding it awhile and the engine is nice and hot, the bike wants to creep forward even when the clutch lever is fully pulled in. It is as if the push rod is still slight engaged. This does not happen when cool. I thought my clutch fluid was low but that wasn't the case but I went ahead anway and fully bled the line and put new fluid in it. Still no difference. I also went ahead and did a complete oil change as well as filter. When I drained my oil I realised that crickey... I was running this bike with hardly any oil in her - eeeek.

So what could be causing the bike to creep slowly forward when the clutch lever is fully pulled but only happens when the engine has warmed up?

Aprecciate you feedback.

Regards

John
Click to expand...


mine acted like that one time when it needed bleeding but there is also a part that can seize to the clutch shaft and cause it. It's a pretty lengthy repair but others will chime in. Take your clutch slave off and clean the push rod and all components of the slave. It may not be engaging the clutch far enough as It also gets a little worn spot on it and you can polish the push rod up with some scotch bright. Good luck
 
Take whole clutch out. And check the bearing for scoring. Low oil and hot engine will seize this bearing.
 
Yep, it's time to pull the clutch basket out and check the bearing, shaft, star washer and the plates. If it was me, I'd replace it all and be done with it. :goodluck:
 
So Sorry that you realized that you had low oil....Problem is

_ Where did the oil go?
_ The two former posts are pretty much the solution to your problem.
_ Too bad you didn't catch your prob before you realized oil was low. I didn't have a creeping problem (I"m pretty creepy myself), but I had sticking and jumping when placed in first gear. I replace my clutch springs with Barnett HD springs. ( replaced all) as I have a strong left hand. (shut up Madmann) All problems went away.

Sorry that you had to get into this situation, but with the help of this great forum, you'll have it solved before you know it.

Good luck.....sounds like you deep fried your clutch though...just replace it and be done with it.....if you go the short route, you'll end up taking things apart again...and that's more frustration that you probably need.

Your in Auckland.....hope parts aren't too hard to get.
 
Thanks for all your advice guys. Yeah this baby burns oil so I have to keep it topped up regularly. This time I was not as vigilant. If I went to the local dealer here in Auckland for parts it would cost the GDP of a small African country. I usually order my parts from the US as it is cheaper even with the shipping. I will have to check the manual and see how to pull apart and inspect the whole clutch system. Hope it is not too expensive. I will let you all know how it goes.
 
We're a fantastic source for parts right here Bro, keep that in mind!! Surely the group can 'find' a clutch somewhere!! :headbang:
 
Trust me. Coming to you guys for parts will be my first port of call as it has been in the past. Christmas is coming up and i have some time off work so I will pull the clutch apart and check it then. Thanks for your suggestions so far.
 
Here is the update. I disassembled and cleaned the master cylinder out inside and out. Put it back together but the bike still creeps when clutch was pulled in. I then took the clutch cover off and here is what I found on the spring plate pusher (see image). It was dinged up a bit and scraped as if it had been hitting against something (but what?). Maybe the previous tensioner had broken but it has been replaces as the tensioner looks good. So I pulled the plate off and I could see that the spring leaf was busted in two places (see pictures).

Now just a couple of questions:

  1. Would a broken spring leaf cause the bike to creep when clutch is pulled?
  2. I can not pull of the basket because i do not have the special tool that holds the basket in place when you undo the nut. I could go and order this tool but has anyone got a special home made idea that works for preventing the clutch from turning while you undo the nut?

Many thanks

Johnphoto (3).jpgphoto.jpgphoto (1).jpgphoto (2).jpg
 
entoria said:
Here is the update. I disassembled and cleaned the master cylinder out inside and out. Put it back together but the bike still creeps when clutch was pulled in. I then took the clutch cover off and here is what I found on the spring plate pusher (see image). It was dinged up a bit and scraped as if it had been hitting against something (but what?). Maybe the previous tensioner had broken but it has been replaces as the tensioner looks good. So I pulled the plate off and I could see that the spring leaf was busted in two places (see pictures).

Now just a couple of questions:

  1. Would a broken spring leaf cause the bike to creep when clutch is pulled?
  2. I can not pull of the basket because i do not have the special tool that holds the basket in place when you undo the nut. I could go and order this tool but has anyone got a special home made idea that works for preventing the clutch from turning while you undo the nut?

Many thanks

JohnView attachment 13335View attachment 13336View attachment 13337View attachment 13338
Click to expand...

yes.... An impact gun
 
badbrad said:
yes.... An impact gun
Click to expand...

The impact gun will spin it right off and out run the basket. I believe you are going to find the bearing seized to the shaft and that's going to be bear.
 
As long as you are going to need a new leaf spring, you might as well do the concourse upgrade - link below. And as far as getting the clutch nut off, an impact as mentioned above helps, and it's not really advised, but in a pinch, if you are very careful, you can put some of the bolts back in the clutch and use some sort of pry bar between them to hold the clutch still - again, this is not really advised , since you can bust up your knuckles pretty good if it slips apart and possibly do more damage to the clutch/bike/etc. The special tool - clutch holder can be bought pretty reasonable from Motion Pro. Good luck. Later.

Concours upgrade:

http://www.zl-oa.com/community/threads/Clutch-Finger-Upgrade.15413

Motion Pro clutch holder:

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0008/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for that guys. What is the advantage of doing the concours upgrade with the two spring leafs?
 
I'm guessing since the conny was made for many more years than our bikes, mama kaw must have found a better more reliable setup - maybe the dual springs have less fatigue over time and result in the fingers being less likely to break? I've never really heard an explanation, but if you look in the Tech section, many of the upgrades for the ZL come from the conny and I think a lot of info even comes from the zrx's and their respective websites/forums. Later.
 
The saga continues.... I replaced the spring leafs with the concours upgrade (2 x leafs) and the new nut. I also replaced the clutch springs with Barnetts as the old springs were out of spec when measured. I also measured the clutch plates and the friction plates and they were all within spec so I left them as is. Put the whole clutch back together and the same problem still happens.

When I pull the clutch lever in to disengage the clutch, the bike still creeps forward like it used to. The lever feels really spongy if I hold it in for any period of time. Also If I hold the lever in and the let it out just a few millimeters the bike will want to move forwards. Previously before the problem started, it will only start to move as the clutch engages only when the level is about half way released.

It is as if the push rod is not being fully pushed in when the piston in the slave cylinder pushes it. I have fully taken apart both the master and slave cylinders and cleaned them out and put them back together.

I am all out of ideas. Please someone help with their ideas?

Thanks

John
 
I would run a couple pints of brake fluid through the system....with a vacuum bleed evacuater. Since you have done everything else.
 
I'm with Scooby on this..........you've got some air in the line somewhere. Crack the banjo fitting at the slave cylinder in the same way you'd operate a bleeder, then bleed through the bleeder.....preferably using the vacuum method but the bleeder may get it if you can get any air through the banjo. :goodluck:
 
One thing to watch when bleeding this method...you will empty that resevoir real quick...I mean quick and you'll get air in the system. Fill, pump on vacuum bleeder, release. fill, pump on vacuum bleeder, release. When I did mine the first time, I let that darn resevoir empty more times than I care to admit. I have to bleed mine again...

One day, it hooks like no other, another day, it slips like no other....I might have fried my clutch, I don't care at this point, It's just something that I HAV'T replaced on this bike. hehehehehe
 
The spongy feel of the clutch and it engaging when you barely let it go us a sign of air. I would also maybe change the master cylinder as you could be introducing air in through the seals and not even know it. This system required zero air in the line to work properly.

If you are completely satisfied that its bled properly and it creeps when you pull it in, the bearing is starting to seize to the shaft in the clutch and will require to be fixed.

From the sound of your problem and the way it acts, I'm not convinced its your bearing at this point.
 
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