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Runs, Won't Idle.

ZLrider Sep 13, 2017

  1. R. J.

    R. J. Well-Known Member

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    :hello: Hopefully they exited the exhaust system with out doing any harm.
     
  2. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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    On the 600 according to the manual, the air filter can be washed and reused. It really is nothing more than a piece of sponge or foam. It sits in a cradle so to speak made of metal. When I pulled it out, it was all one piece but when I touched it, it basically fell apart. That was all the pieces of it laying on the floor. A new one came from Kawasaki at a cost of $10. According to what I was told by two different sources, there is no aftermarket alternative available. Yesterday I put all of the suction valve stuff back on the bike as well as the valve cover and all coolant hoses back connected and got it filled with coolant. One of the reasons I was so frustrated the other day was because the new Motion Pro Carb tool had arrived. I opened the box to find the plastic tube that it gets stored in was broken. No biggie. Inside of the tube is another small tube that stores the included low profile bits. That was shattered into pieces. Still not a big deal. The tool itself has a large stationary handle and on the end is a handle or knob that rotates to turn the gears to adjust. The outer knob would not move. I loosened the set screw and let it move away from the stationary part. It was no longer locked up but it still would not rotate. There is a spring in there and is supposed to be a small ball that acts as a detent (why I don't know) I ended up taking the spring out so the outer handle would just move. The straight bit that was in there was so small and fine that it did not seem to work well with the pilot screws and every time I got it locked into the screw the tool would bind and not want to turn. I pulled a bit out of one of my other sets of bits but it made it too large to fit the tool between the coolant pipe and the carbs so I had to take that bit and cut about 1/4" off the end to make it low profile. I got it to go into the pilot screws with a nice fit. The problem was as soon as I got the tool under tension it wanted to bind and lock up. I thought to myself WTF. I put a dab of dialectric grease on the gears figuring maybe a burr or the sharpness of new gears was causing the bind. It still was binding. I managed to get all the screws adjusted although it was a PITA. The last time I went to make an adjustment I got to a point where it was binding bad. I looked at the two gears again to see just what the heck was going on. The gear that attaches to the moveable knob part has a tiny tiny roll pin holding the gear on. That roll pin was coming out binding against the tool. I pushed it back in. Problem is it wouldn't stay in, it kept moving outward. Finally it fell out and it took me about 10 minutes to find the damn thing. By this time I was ready to smash it with a hammer. The thing cost just about $70 and I do not mind paying for a quality tool but holy hell I was pretty unpleased to say the least. I emailed the people back (bought thru ebay from The Biker Store) and told them the thing was junk. They responded right away asking me to explain and I took pics of all of it and explained. They have another one in the mail to me. If it works no better I am just gonna get my money back.


    I really do not have a ton of time invested in the repairs on the bike. Long story but I just peck away on it when I get the time and energy to. Most of my stuff from my garage is in storage because I am doing work in the garage to make it into a workshop and I have stuff scattered. Some stuff in the garage, some stuff in the attic above the garage and some stuff in my storage unit that is now crammed full with my younger brother's stuff (a whole other story) I have a HF bike lift in the garage but I never got as far as putting the wheel vice or tie downs on it and I think the ramp to it is buried in my storage and right now the lift is a catch all for crap in the garage. Anyway I have my sync gauges connected to it and I just have to put the tank on something close to the bike and run the fuel to it and start it up to check the sync on the carbs. I will get to that today. I still believe the issue with the thing is in the pilot screw settings and/or sync. The reason I was reluctant to pull the valve cover and check the valves was because of the coolant hoses. Even tho it only has a little over 9000 miles on the bike, it's still 31 years old and I did not want to disturb coolant hoses, pipes, etc and create a leak that I would pull my hair out trying to get to stop. My fingers are crossed that all of that will be ok when I get it started and running again. I am determined to get this thing right for Mike and do what I said I was going to do. Get it running right for him. I know it has to be something simple.
     
    R. J. likes this.
  3. R. J.

    R. J. Well-Known Member

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    :hello: I was going to buy that Motion Pro inriching air mixture adjusting tool but bought a cheeper one instead & it works just fine. I would of lost it on that thing. :laughing7:. I pulled my hair out on Ron D. ZL 10 when doing the carbs. I had the carbs out 3 times. They was bench sinked by Ron A. Most of the time they are dead on but this time they needed synched using the gauges. After being synched the bike ran fine but he did not want the valves adjusted. # 1 cyn had only 70 PSI. As far as I know he sold that orange colored bike.
     
  4. RLTherio

    RLTherio Active Member

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    Can you post a picture of that Motion Pro tool and/or the part number so we can have a heads up on what to stay away from?
    Thanks and keep up the great work
    Bob T
     
  5. R. J.

    R. J. Well-Known Member

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  6. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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  7. RLTherio

    RLTherio Active Member

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    I would say definitely take a hammer to it, just deform the roll pin just enough so it has to be forced back in.
     
  8. R. J.

    R. J. Well-Known Member

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    :hello: Once I taught a garage door opener a lesson. :laughing7:. My wife asked if it made me feel better. Damn right it did. :laughing7:. Motion Pro has good tools for the most part. Most likely you got one bad one out of 1000.
     
  9. paulfun

    paulfun "King Of The 1/4mi (Internally Stock)"

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    I have given a few inanimate objects lessons over the years myself!:roflmao: Problem is it always seems to just add more to the TO-DO List and cost me more money. However I can clearly understand how it makes one feel better getting that frustration out!:whistling:
     
    R. J. and markus56 like this.
  10. R. J.

    R. J. Well-Known Member

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    :hello: I still have scars from teaching lessons to unhurtable objects. :laughing7:. Also you always have impressions to remind yourself for acting out. Like a perfect impression of a 10 mm T handel imprinted on your kitchen door :laughing7: or a hole in your garage door that you threw a 1/2" drive ratchet threw.
     
  11. ZLrider

    ZLrider Well-Known Member

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    Got to hate it when your tools let you down. I could be wrong, but if following what Bill is saying it reminds me of a door hinge. If you ever encounter a door that swings shut by itself you can put a quick end to that by pulling a pin and hitting it with a hammer putting a small curve in it. I wonder if this trick would also keep the gauge pin from backing out.

    Hate to admit it, but since the subject has been brought up, I've taken out frustrations on inanimate objects for most of my life. Ended up regretting it a few times. Used to be my welding skills were abysmal. Ugly welds that many time would fail. A friend asked to see my helmet, a cheap piece of crap that came with the welder. The old fashioned kind that you flip down when ready to go. He said try mine. He had the auto dim type. What a difference. Suddenly I was Mr Joe Welder. For years I struggled and it was not my fault, it was junk tools. When got a new helmet, I punted the old one down the driveway.....felt good until I realized what a mess I created. Took half an hour to sweep up all the broken glass.

    For the record I knew the filter looked a bit iffy, but seemed to me it was doing it's job, although I new it was due for a change. The deterioration was on the intake side, so it wasn't going into the carbs.

    Thanks for everything Bill. God knows how long it would have taken me to get where you are. Hopefully I'll be able to maintain it in working order for another few years. The reason why am so ignorant about this machine is simple. In all the time I've had it the only attention it needed was oil changes.
     
  12. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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    Here are some pics. After I started the bike and let it get warm here are the sync gauge readings. It's way off. I was able to get the pairs balanced but when I was getting ready to balance the two pairs together it started puking coolant. It was the o rings on the tubes I had pulled. Got those fixed..I started it again yesterday to see where I was sitting. I tried several different tools to get the crews adjust (pilot) no luck. Finally pulled the old motion pro out and wrapped tape around it to hold the roll pin in. I wanted to make sure all the pilots were even. They were all at 2 turns out. With carbs mostly balanced I gave a throttle snap. Now it hung and came back down slow. According to the tech article that means lean. I went out 1/4 turn at a time on all 4 carbs. Got all the way to 3.25 turns out. Still won't idle right or smooth. Ideas Paul???
     
  13. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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    507E3E52-E6C6-4644-A03E-72D8A6C6E6C6.jpeg 73A81862-C544-4FD2-98CC-2B5A6AB4AD55.jpeg
     
    R. J. likes this.
  14. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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    9B88EF46-3C55-4C39-AD8E-26AAB09AB3C0.jpeg 0EE3A592-6A4D-4A17-89B3-0C8890699405.jpeg 9B88EF46-3C55-4C39-AD8E-26AAB09AB3C0.jpeg 0EE3A592-6A4D-4A17-89B3-0C8890699405.jpeg Here is where I got them to on my lunch break today.
     
  15. paulfun

    paulfun "King Of The 1/4mi (Internally Stock)"

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    Lets start with 3 things

    Did You do a bench sync bye eye or with a wire gauge?
    Loosen the throttle cables a bit if one is out of adjustment they will make the throttle react funny and hang, sometimes just enough that you don't see it.
    Did you re-check for vacume leaks after installing the carbs this time?
     
    R. J. likes this.
  16. paulfun

    paulfun "King Of The 1/4mi (Internally Stock)"

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    Also I cant tell how close those are by the pics
    Get all 4 carbs on the same black line even if you have to lower the Idle speed a little

    One more question after its warm and you rev it a few times is there any variation in where the needles on the gauge settle?
     
    R. J. likes this.
  17. ZLrider

    ZLrider Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how relevant this is, but the cables seem weird on this bike. When I tried to back off the lock nuts up by the hand grip to get some play to remove them, I could not because they were already adjusted in fully. Seems to work this way, but doesn't seem right.

    Even weirder is other than the slight flat spot in the mid to upper RPM range, this bike ran fine last time it was ridden. Started well, idled well, ran well. I would not have even touched anything if not for the bowls leaking. All I did besides gaskets, was check the floats and tweak two of them slightly.

    Good luck Bill and many thanks. Feel bad for getting you into such a messed up situation bro.
     
  18. Ducky Dog

    Ducky Dog New Member

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    Hi
    Im new here ,, but I have a concern with the drilling of the pilot jets to clean them, not a good idea in my book,
    May I suggest ,,, replacing the jets with new ones,, surprising what a new set of jets will do.
    also ,, if the idle is not correctly set when adjusting carbs you will be fighting it, my 2cnts
     
  19. WillyD

    WillyD Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. When posting pics from my phone too many pics got on.

    I didn't bench sync. I looked at the throttle plates and by eye they looked pretty close. I never touched the screws and when ZLR did bowl gaskets he didn't either. I double checked all vacuum places last time I put carbs on. The first two pics are the two pairs with pilot screws set at 2 turns out. Sync screws had not been touched. After warmed up the idle was still choppy. Quick snaps of the throttle sounded good and return was immediate. No hang in coming back down.

    I started at that point to balance the 3-4 carbs together. Got them spot on. Then I went to the 1-2 and got them reading the same. The 1-2 readings were identical but slightly different than the 3-4 carbs. At that point I snapped throttle. This is the point where it was hanging coming back down. Idle was sounding better. Coolant was leaking and I shut it down. Fixed coolant leak.

    As Paul suggested I went 1/4 turns out on all 4 carbs and let them settle. Idle was not as bad but still kinda choppy. I went to 3.25 turns out. Next step was working really hard at getting all 4 carbs the same. Got them really close. Turned screws back in to 3 turns out. Started it about a half hour ago. It seems very close to correct now. Still want to tweak it a bit more then maybe throw the tank back on and ride it.


    As far as drilling the pilots this was not the case. Pilots are .35mm. I have some tiny drill bits. One is a .35mm. I use this one to run down the pilot holes to clean out any dirt or varnish. It does not enlarge the pilot but is the exact same size as the pilot. If it goes in and out of the pilot then I know the pilot is clear.
     
    R. J. likes this.
  20. Ducky Dog

    Ducky Dog New Member

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    WillyD
    I was not trying to take away from your skillset or knowledge,,
    Just trying to share
    I spent many a hours rebuilding carbs and when a bike has been setting for a year and one tries to rejuvenate it , even though the carb is clean as a whistle and the jets look to be clean, I have pulled my hair out trying to get them tuned,, replaced jets , problem solved. just my 2cnts

    one other question,,, was the spark at the plugs nice and blue? just curious
     
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